Photography Jody Rogac
Stylist Linda Engelhardt
Interview Aminatou Sow
The Greek philosophers say that friends hold a mirror up to each other and that once you’ve seen yourself in a mirror of friendship, the reflection cannot be unseen. As someone who has had the distinct pleasure of having been a Natasha Lyonne fan before we became friends, I know intimately well that she reflects the very best of humankind: she is a frighteningly expansive font of knowledge, possesses an insatiable curiosity and admirable intellectual rigor. She also works hard—my god, does she work hard. But above all, she is a fierce lover of her people, lacking in judgment and heaping undeserved kindness and generosity on everyone in her orbit.
Natasha reprises her role as a human lie detector, Charlie Cale, in Season 2 of Poker Face, and you’re in for a real treat. This season reveals new truths about Charlie and her softness is revealed. It’s unsurprising, as Natasha herself is in a new season of life where she is more in control, more confident and secure in her gifts— the result of living an examined life and embracing gratitude every step of the way. She knows that her life’s purpose is a ruthless pursuit of the truth and using her art to reach as many people as possible. She sees and accepts people for who they really are. It’s well time we did the same for her.
MIU MIU dress, technical knit swimsuit and fingerless gloves.
Aminatou Sow: What’s surprising you these days?
Natasha Lyonne: I can't believe how many times you have to re-teach people who you are. They literally forget moment to moment. And I think it's a sign of the times that the news cycle is so oppressive and all-consuming that we don't have the attention span to retain any information, let alone something of no consequence.
AS: Anything making you happy right now? You make me very happy.
NL: Obviously, we're very real friends, so you know that I have plenty of dark nights of the soul. I don't have any shame in sharing that. I think it's of use and of service.
That said, we have so much joy and laughter like recently huddling up after getting lost and finding ourselves walking in the rain in Chinatown. You, me and Zadie [Smith] hugging. There is such magic and beauty to that. And then we all head home, talking about how the world is falling apart, but poets must stay alive. And life really is both things.
PRADA dress; AGENT PROVOCATEUR bodychain.
“I'm always so surprised by the things that keep me up at night.”
AS: That was a beautiful night. Can you tell me what you think about your chosen family? I ask because you really do bring the idea of family to every single project you’re involved in.
NL: Everybody is in their own pain and struggle. People have kids and bills and health stuff going on. A lot of this sort of shrapnel that I think we experience walking through life is just absent-minded self-centeredness. And I'm sure we are guilty of doing just the same to others without realizing it, of not noticing that somebody wants to be noticed at this corner of the restaurant and we're just waving briefly instead of actually going over and having a whole conversation. I'm always so surprised by the things that keep me up at night. It's usually about interpersonal oddities or exchanges that felt off, and then I wish I could go back and change.
I want to have a good time with my friends, so the only safety net I can come up with is essentially building kind of a mafia where we look out for each other and that's why they say, at the Olive Garden, when you're here, you're family. A lot of people don't know that I'm actually a nepo baby, I'm Sicilian.
AS: Readers, she is not Sicilian.
NL: My family owns and runs an Olive Garden. And I don't tell people that because I don't want them to think I had a leg up. But I think it's time to say it.
AS: Be serious
GUCCI suede jumpsuit; AGENT PROVOCATEUR open bra.
NL: The thing I guess I'm really after is unconditional love between my friends, who happen to be the people I work with, because I guess that's the thing I didn't have as a child, and that's the thing that being a public figure will never provide you. I've been in this life for so long now that I know that there's an inevitable curve to it of ups and downs, and that there will be for all of us. And the big idea is to hold this cushion around it, so that way, we're allowed to fail, we're allowed to have years down, we're allowed to have years up, and that it's a team, a community of artists supporting each other rather than seeing it as winning or losing at life based on outside opinions.
AS: I got to see you work on set recently and wow, more people should go visit their friends at work. It was very cool to see that you are the boss. You write, you direct, you produce. And that day, you were directing, and I was so struck by how comfortable in your own skin you were.
What does that feel like?
NL: I feel much more embodied when it's a team activity so directing is my favorite thing in the world. It's my most joyful place. It's everything I like all at once, and especially when I'm not on camera. It is fully alive and it’s so much more comfortable than not knowing where to put my body as an actor because I'm trying to stay out of the way. That day, I had the chance to work with you and Patti Harrison, and then Becky Chin, who's been my first AD since forever. The two of us are having fun, because we are just fully embodied. She's running that set. I'm watching the monitor. I'm so excited. The crew is getting new ideas for you guys, doing Altman slow zooms and it's so joyful because it's really everything that makes me happy in one place.
“A lot of people don't know that I'm actually a nepo baby. I'm Sicilian.”
GUCCI suede jumpsuit; AGENT PROVOCATEUR open bra.
AS: I really love how happy this career transition has made you. In private, you refer to it as Act 3. Can you say more?
NL: I am trying to genuinely stop asking for approval and understand that it's okay to be the boss. I try to think, what would a middle-aged white bachelor with my skill set and track record do at this moment in time? And they would probably feel con+dent taking a year off to work on their screenplay that they're going to direct and just know that was time well spent because they're proven to be safe to bet on themselves instead of hustling, hustling, hustling, which is definitely what I've been doing all of Act One and Act Two.
AS: I just watched the fantastic Art Spigelman doc and he is such a fascinating person. In the +lm, he spends a considerable amount of time being haunted by and trying to escape the success of Maus, the graphic novel that catapulted him into the world of the literary greats. He later re-embraces the work and I was incredibly moved by that process. I am wondering if there is any work from your early career that you might feel similarly about but are open to being surprised by later?
“I am trying to genuinely stop asking for approval and understand that it’s okay to be the boss.”
POLO RALPH LAUREN windbreaker and skirt; HERMÈS Kelly buckle shoes; stylist’s own ruffle sleeves.
NL: The first one that comes to mind is American Pie, and I don't know why I have such a beef with that movie. I just think that I was just so confused that I was in it. And there's this David Bowie quote that I'll probably fumble, but it's something like, "Aging is this beautiful process by which we become the person we were always intended to be." So in a weird way, it's like I look back at that little curly haired girl who always thought she was an outsider and felt less than and lost and confused. And I missed the point that actually there was no tragedy happening. There were a series of gifts and positive things that were happening that I was distorting because of low self-esteem.
But really if I had just taken the gift of Slums of Beverly Hills, then I would've understood that they actually wanted that curly-haired, funny person with a big personality, instead of being like, "Oh my God, this is so scary that now I've got to change. I've got to change everything about her." When Marcel, who's been doing my hair since Russian Doll Season One laid out his character ideas for the show, and he had Nadia with bangs and big curly red hair, I was like, "Oh gosh, what are you talking about? This is crazy, Marcel, because I have to have a blowout or something. Otherwise they won't accept the show." And he said, "What are you talking about? This is your look."
AS: He was absolutely right. What else are you grieving right now?
CHANEL georgette crepe cape & skirt, Golden crystal bracelet and lambskin, metal & calfskin belt; stylist’s own earrings.
NL: Well, I had an old sponsor that used to tell me grief doesn't get enough space because we're essentially in a constant state of grieving. We're grieving each moment that passed. We don't even realize that we're grieving the beauty and love of our life. Like I'm in a state of grief already that this conversation with you will soon come to an end. At any given moment, we're not allowed to name the myriad states of grief, both positive and negative, both beautiful and horrifying, personal and external. I mean, how could anyone exist without being aware of the state of the world and human suffering writ large?
AS: My friend, you are so alive and in such a contemplative place. What truths about yourself have you arrived at?
NL: A life's purpose is meant to be a life of service where you are in the business of helping other people by whichever means possible that you are capable of. And I have been gifted a huge privilege in that I get to do it through a life in the arts. I've also decided to take a decade for myself. Because after 40 years, I finally see that I'm all good. You know what I mean? I got a lot of fucking gifts in this life. I finally understand that I know how to do my job very well, and I understand that I'm surrounded by love and I understand that I get to choose who I work with now and that they are fucking beautiful, brilliant, people. And they do get it. So I do get to have fun with it and also get to make the things I want to make. That is unreal. I'm really proud and grateful that I don't have to swim upstream anymore. I can go with the flow.
MIU MIU dress, technical knit swimsuit and +ngerless gloves.
AS: Not to end on a zen note, but I was thinking about the story you told earlier about us walking in the rain and it reminds of that Ram Dass quote: “We’re all just walking each other home.”
NL: This is really the great gift of New York City that Los Angeles does not have going for it. You know what I mean?
AS: Not enough sidewalks and that’s sad. Sidewalks are our ministry.
NL: I mean, walking and thinking aloud, not looking each other in the eye because you're looking out and it had a fast pace in Manhattan and there's so much happening and you can just see that there are so many other lives and full existence from the drunk college kids to the fucking businessmen, to the mom struggling with the baby, trying to get the stroller in the car. And then a bike passes, whizzes by and nearly gets hit by a taxi cab and we are just walking and talking each other home.
HERMÈS utility jumpsuit.
This interview has been edited and condensed. We had many riotous laughs during this conversation so read it with that in mind.
June 2025